Hiatus Fantasy League Q&A Session: Weeks 2-4

Well, I was a bit of a slacker and didn't compile your questions from Weeks 2 and 3 into Q&A sessions like we did for Week 1, but I'm playing catch-up here. There were some really good questions that have led to some pretty significant rulings. Some of these rulings will have an impact on prior episodes we've watched for the Hiatus League.

These rulings, along with several new rulings established for our Week 5 post (which you will be seeing on Thursday), will go into effect immediately, though scoring adjustments for Weeks 1-4 will not be factored into your scores until the Week 6 post. By Week 6, I will have watched all four episodes again and will be able to adjust your scores accordingly.

Gosh, I sound so darn official! :-P

Let's get to the point- click below to read the latest Q&A session.

QUESTION #1
Hey dark/g-man, this might be a silly question but you guys said that we are watching the episodes like for the first time. So if in the hiatus you do an episode from season 2 which has Henry Gale AKA Ben, will Ben get points as we didn't know he was Ben then?

We’re not going to be so strict as to withhold Ben points because he was using an alias at the time. If Ben shows up in Season 2 episodes under the guise of Henry Gale during our hiatus season, we’ll give him points. This is an easy technicality to shrug off.



QUESTION #2
How do you know when something is the official moment of discovery? I only ask because LOST often shows things out of chronological order, and you won't have the benefit of hindsight.

For example, we later found out Nikki and Paulo discovered the Pearl before Locke and Eko. Who gets the points? What if there is a Rousseau flashback of her finding the Radio tower/Black Rock?

Dark and I have revamped our rules on discoveries. Early on we said that we would only be doling out discovery points for the original moment of discovery. We have since established the following rules-

1) The person, place or thing has to be found/discovered/encountered by a person who is unaware of its existence, regardless if we ourselves have seen it. This means there is no longer an “original discovery” rule. All League characters can earn points for discovering the same thing, provided that they had no prior knowledge of it and that the following rules also apply.

2) Characters must discover the new person, place or thing on their own. Being led to an object by someone who has seen them/it before or possess prior knowledge of them/it will NOT count for discovery points.

3) The Goodwin Clause- League characters will NOT get points for new characters who reveal themselves or make themselves known to said character. Goodwin sought out the Tail Section survivors, so Libby and Cindy cannot get points for discovering/encountering him. You have to find the person, they can’t find you.

4) If a new person, place or thing is initially deemed insignificant but later on is found to be a significant discovery, points can and will be awarded retroactively.

DarkUFO and I reserve the right to examine discoveries on a case by case basis.



QUESTION #3
Encountering vs. discovering new people/places/things.
I was wondering about the scoring of week 2. You seem to be saying Goodwin was discovered or he discovered the Tailies. The terminology you use on the league points table reads encounters a new person, place or thing. Would it be better to use the word discovers when trying to decide on the scoring? Encounters implies a meeting, but discovers implies the first meeting. Rousseau wouldn't get points for finding Ben because we the viewers already know about the others. Would Jack be the only one to receive points for discovering Desmond, cause Jack met Des off island first? But then really Penny met Des off island first, so she should get the points. But Kate is really the one who discovers Des on island. These are just examples to explain my point, but I am not sure I explained my point very well. I am not criticizing you, just asking to understand better.

You are correct, it would have been better for us to name the points category “Discovers and New Person/Place/Thing.” Technically though, because we eliminated the “first-time-only” rule for discovery points, encountering a new person, place or thing is an fitting label for the points category, as long as the previously stated rules apply.



QUESTION #4
Why do you say “polar bear points” funny? (referring to Week 3's update)

Haha, that’s an interesting story. In college, my roommates/friends and I were watching some really crappy movie on TV with French guys in it or something. They got attacked by a polar bear and one of them cried out “Polar bear!” His accent really butchered the words (as we Americans are used to hearing it said anyway) and it became a kind of inside joke. I didn’t even really think about it when I recorded it, so consider yourselves in on the joke.



QUESTION #5
Here is one so complex that I had to go through and answer it bit by bit:

Using "Through the Looking Glass" as an example, I calculate that Jack would get 25 for a centric and 20 for his FFs, for a total of 45 on that aspect. Kate would get 25 for a FF in somebody else's episode. Am I right so far?

Yes, this is correct.

Now let's imagine that both Kate and Sawyer had gotten out of the Volvo in the last scene. Would they each get 25 for a FF in somebody else's episode? Since there's no "Montage in a FF", I'm assuming that 8 characters could have gotten out of that Volvo (hypothetically) and each would have gotten 25 points. Would that be correct?

Yes, had they all been stuffed inside like a clown car, every one of our League characters in that car would get the 25 points for appearing in Jack’s Flash Forward.

It's murkier for me with the FB. This is all hypothetical, but let's imagine that we get a Ben centric episode in which he gets 3 FB scenes, then we get one Juliet FB of her eavesdropping on one of those FB scenes, and one Alex FB of her telling Ben she saw Juliet eavesdropping. (Let's imagine Ben is trying to get Alex to spy on Juliet on the island, to give that context... albeit, lame context.)

Now, to calculate that, Ben would get 25 for his centric and 10 for his on-island FB, for a total of 35. Would Juliet and Alex get 15 each for "Ch. appears in someone else's FB (because it's a Ben centric) or 10 each for having their own on-island FB? Or would it be "Montage" because there were multiple character (2) having one FB each? Or can we only have "Montage" when it's nobody's centric episode? I'm thinking the last is the case, but I'm not sure.

Juliet and Alex would each get 25 points- 10 for having their own On-Island flashbacks, and 15 for appearing in Ben’s flashbacks. If one or both of Juliet and Alex had a second flashback in that episode, they would get centricity points for the episode and not be credited with appearing in Ben’s flashbacks as long as their flashbacks fit together in a cohesive linear narrative as you just described.

A ‘Montage’ flashback is either an episode like “Greatest Hits” where the flashbacks are not a cohesive linear narrative, or for an episode with a mixture of off-Island flashbacks, on-Island flashbacks, and/or flash forwards. While the flashes in these episodes may tie in loosely, there is too much disruption or time differentiation to be considered a linear narrative.

Another hypothtical. Let's say we have a Sun centric and she has 3 FFs in a story related to her family, and two pre-island FBs with Mr. Paik as well. Would she get credit for both the FB and FF... i.e. 25 for centric, plus 20 for FF and 15 for off-island FB?

With three time frames to play in, I have a feeling they could easily confuse me right out of my cotton-pickin' mind in S4.

Nope! As mentioned above, this type of episode would be considered a ‘Montage’ flashback/flash forward, worth a mere 10 points.

Thanks for any help you give me in clarifying all that. :)

Not a problem; that’s what we’re here for!



QUESTION #6
(regarding Week 4) How do we know the opening scene was actually at the black rock? It was so dark? How could you tell? I actually assumed it was somewhere in the jungle on the way to the black rock as I hope Locke wouldn't be foolish enough to have a small bonfire going on board the ship with all that unstable dynamite!
So is the ruling that the first scene is actually AT the black rock or is it that his trek is implied by us finding out later that he dropped off cooper there (which we may or may not have been witness to)? or maybe my TV was just too dang dark to tell.

I deduced that they were at the Black Rock from a few different things.

First, Cooper isn’t present, but we here his muffled moans from another place not visible to us. These moans sound identical to the sounds we hear coming through the door to the brig on the Black Rock when Sawyer and Locke show up later in the episode.

Second, this opening scene occurs in the present. We jump to a flashback and then come back to Locke fetching Sawyer from the beach camp. Since we last knew Locke to be where Cooper was, I rationalized that Locke was returning to the last place he and Cooper were together- the Black Rock.

So, maybe it’s part assumption, but that’s the call I’m making and DarkUFO has given me the thumbs up to rule this way on the issue.



QUESTION #7
Will our scores reset before Season 4 starts?

Yes. Once the Hiatus League is over, everyone goes back to zero for the start of the official Season 4 League.



QUESTION #8
I did have a question about the ruling that Locke didn't get points for discovering a new place - the ruins with the pillar - because the Others had brought him there and because they were familiar with it. My question is wouldn't that ruling pretty much put null and void to any discoveries since the Others and Rousseau have pretty much been to all the cool places on the Island. Think about it - encountering the Black Rock in Season 1 would have to be taken away since Rousseau is very familiar with it, discovering the Swan Hatch would also be null since Desmond did that awhile back. This is my humble opinion but I think encountering a new place (and this should be a significant place not just another piece of jungle or stretch of beach) it should be the first time a character comes upon a new place. This might be a challenge since "discoveries" are not done at the same time. The ruling would have to be that these points would be awarded if the character does the initial encounter during an episode. If it happens between episodes then no points are awarded. I'll use the Swan Hatch as an example - In Season 2, we see Rose being shown the Hatch by Hurley a couple of episodes after the main characters discover it, so she should get points. On the other hand, Libby in the clothes washing scene with Hurley shouldn't get points since she's familiar with the surroundings. I think if we go by a strict interpretation of encountering a new place that not only will it be hard to ever award points but it will increase the likelihood that points would be subtracted latter on. Again I'll use the Hatch as an example - by the strict constructionist viewpoint even Desmond couldn't get points for discovering the Hatch in his flashback in LT,DA because Kelvin was already pretty much at home there. And who's to say but that somewhere in the upcoming season we don't find out that Richard help build the Hatch or Melvin Candle designed it. Sorry to get all long winded on you there, G-Man. I'll be interested in your thoughts.

Check back with our rulings above on discoveries if you still have any questions regarding that.

Otherwise, yes, this ruling may take away points opportunities because of being led to a new person, place or thing, but DarkUFO and I both think that there will still be plenty of opportunities for discovery points. Our rules will just keep discovery points from being handed out too freely, like candy on Halloween.

If you still need clarification for specific example, email them to us or ask in the comment section and we'll try our best to help you out.



QUESTION #9
Dark and G-man,
What will happen with the LFL and prediction leagues if there are only 8 episodes for season 4? Will you include the next 8 episodes in both or just go with the 8 or what? I know a lot of answers in the prediction league were probably counting on more than 8 episodes airing for season 4.

Don’t worry. Even though the threat of the writers strike wiping out the regularly scheduled second half of Season 4 is still very real, the Season 4 Fantasy League will be run on the first 16 new episodes of Lost. We had you pick your characters based on how you thought they would perform over the full 16-episode season and we’re sticking by that.

In the worst case scenario, this may mean waiting until the Fall for those extra 8 episodes promised us for Season 4. In the event of such an occurrence, there would be a long mid-season hiatus for the Fantasy League, but we would pick right back up where we left off, scores intact.

If the strike were to completely foul things up and cause the producers to cut the run of the series by 8 episodes, then DarkUFO and I will figure out what to do. Considering Carlton and Damon have an agreement with ABC, I don’t think we have to worry about getting shorted any episodes.



QUESTION #10
Say why aren't we including the mobisodes in the fantasy league since it looks like Season 4 is going to be short at best?

The mobisodes are too short and don’t give all the characters a fair shot at appearing in them. Also, as stated above, we’ll be scoring the first 16 new episodes aired (no matter how long a hiatus there may be in the middle) no matter what.



QUESTION #11
We know that the characters are losing 30 points if they die in an episode, but what happens if we see his corpse without seeing him dying?

Ex: The identity of the person in the coffin at the end of Season 3 is revealed

What happens if there is a vision of someone dying without beeing real?

Ex: Charlie and his multiples fake deaths, Shannon fake death in Season 1.

Death points are interesting. Here are our rules:

1) You can only dies once for real. If you are resuscitated after a near-death experience, then you didn’t die. In order to get the ‘Death Deduction’ you have to die and stay dead. Thusly, Charlie’s hanging in Season 1 does not incur a death deduction, as Jack resuscitated him.

2) In instances of implied death (i.e. a flash forward revealing to us that a League character has died), the death deduction will be enforced in the first episode in which we learn of a League character’s demise. While a character’s death may typically be shown to us on-screen, there may be cases where a character dies and we don’t ever get to see it. This would create a loophole where a character could avoid a death deduction by not having their death televised to us. This eliminates any such loophole. In whichever episode we learn that a League character has died, the lose points.

Thusly, the first episode we learn who is in the coffin, we would take off points in that episode, instead of throwing a deduction on “Through the Looking Glass.” The first time we know for sure, we’re hitting them up with the deduction.

3) While you can only die once for real, any deaths that happen in dreams and Island visions are fair game for the death deduction. We dole out points for having visions, so anything that happens in one is fair game for points, both positive and negative. This means you can double dip on death deductions by dying for real, and also for dying in a vision (like Charlie).

4) A death deduction can be enforced twice for the same death, as long as the death in question is re-shown in another episode. We see Shannon die in “Abandoned,” but the same scene is shown at the end of “The Other 48 Days.” Because the same footage was used twice, both times occurring during the normal run-time of the episode, Shannon would lose points for both times she was shown dying for real (and another time for when she ‘died’ in Boone’s drug-induced vision).

If you don't feel our answers have clarified things enough for you, or you have more questions, leave them in the comment section or email us at LFLquestions@gmail.com

Thanks for all of your awesome questions everybody!